Robert,

I think that you should look into an in-ear system. This would include an in-ear transmitter and body pack. You would also want a small mixer and an ambient mike or two so that you could hear what you need to hear of the other musicians. You would mix the ambient mikes and your sax on the small mixer. You may also need a feed from a lead vocal mike if you don\'t hear the vocals well enough with the ambient mike/s. You could split vocal and your output with xlr \'y\' connectors.

In-ear monitoring systems are becoming widely used. The equipment is mature and readily available, though not cheap. The major manufacturers have in-ear systems in their line. It is not uncommon to see a concert act with no stage monitors.

On a stage with amplified music you will need something in the way of a monitor. In-ear monitors can serve to protect your hearing as long as you are sensible with the volume. The ear pieces provide a good bit of isolation, enough that you will probably need the ambient mikes to hear what else is going on on stage.

A Google search for in-ear monitors wireless turned over 2 million pages so there is a lot of information out there on the subject. Do a bit of reading to decide if this is an avenue you may wish to pursue.

Wink

Hello Wink,

I will also post my question in the message center, minus my editorial comments. If I may present my situation and frustration with the lower eschelon of the sound reinforcement community:

I have been playing saxophone for 20 years now and have done a lot of jazz and Broadway gigs, but I have recently joined a progressive rock band and have added an effects pedal a la Jeff Coffin in the Flecktones. I have never had need for an onstage monitor or to be mic\'d at more than a nominal level.

I have purchased an Audio-Technical Pro35 clip-on instrument mic and, for now, am running through a Digitech RP80 for envelope filters, flanger, wah, and delay. I love the sound in the studio, but working live has been nothing but a pain. And embarrassing.

As soon as my levels get up just high enough for me to hear myself in the house (with no other ambient noise) the feedback begins. I don\'t even get a monitor feed, so I can\'t hear myself over the onstage bass and guitar amps, let alone hear my own effects.

Here are my stipulations - and I would like to believe that there is a solution to my problem that does not involve compromising my ability to interact with the band/diminishing my stage presence by locking my down to a dynamic mic on a stand:

1. I would like to remain on my clip-on condenser mic except in the smallest venues where I can\'t really move anyway. My current idea (it has worked in my house, but I haven\'t tried in a venue) is turning the body pack way down and then amplifying the sound at the sound board. I am able to get decent levels without too much feedback this way. Lots of top names have set-ups that allow mobility - they must know something else I don\'t.

2. I need a set-up that is \"idiot-proof\" over theoretically correct. Ringing out the room is great, but we usually don\'t have access to the venue until an hour before the show, and then we use the house board. I am considering using the DBX AFS224 feedback suppressor before my effects unit. Everyone is really down on these and many people say the feedback will come back. After reading the manuals and specifications, it seems to me that this unit can suppress 24 tones indefinitely if I have 5 min to set the system up, or 60 min. each if I let it run the \"live\" setting. This seems like a very useful thing for me, since I never have the same sound guy twice. Are these things really not that great, or do they just carry an old, antiquated stigma with them?

(Please consider the imperfection of my situation, not the ideal set up)

3. I am currently looking at up grading my rig to an Audio-Technica 3000 level wireless system with XLR out, into the DBX AFS224 unit, and then into a Multi-Effects Processor w/foot board (maybe TC Helicon VoiceLive - Any other suggestions?) If you could set it up for $2000 or less, is there anything that you would add or change? I would like to keep it in a 6-unit portable rack unit to keep my stage footprint small.

I know this is a long email with a lot of information - and I\'m asking for the info pro bono, so if your answer is succinct I understand. Thank you for your interest in my questions. I am desperately seeking a custom solution rather than the \"correct\" way of doing it.

Thanks so much,
~Robert

I have been singing in local bands and doing sound reinforcement for over 30 years. The techniques I have used over the years have served me pretty well. However, I realize that I don\'t know everything and there is always room for improvement. A basic question: I was trained back in the 70\'s to run my power amps wide open and control everything from the mixer / preamp stage. for the most part, this has worked fine. However, now I see more people running their amps backed down and the mixer\'s master sends at unity gain or \'0\', which is usually around 70-80% on a faders scale. I realize that this is a drastic over simplification of a complicated issue. But, do you subscribe to a particular theory or have any suggestions? For example: How would one know how to set the amplifier gains? 50%, 75%? It would seem that you are merely choking off the available power from the amps with this technique.
Thanks for any suggestions.

You will need a mixer of some sort. Microphone output levels are not high enough to drive an amplifier directly unless it has a built in pre-amp. The mixer provides mike pre-amp, some EQ, and the ability to hook several mikes to the output.

Other equipment would include mikes, stands, cords (both mike and speaker, as necessary), and monitors with monitor amp/s. Again, you should check with any bands performing as to what they will need.

The people at the rental place should also be able to give you some advice. It looks like they have most of what you will need at reasonable prices. You may also be able to find somebody in the area that has all of the equipment and sets up for bands that would do what you need for a reasonable price. Ask your bands (if local) or musician friends if they know of somebody.

Thanks Wink,
Sorry my comments keep showing up over and over again.
To answer your questions--
The backyard is about a 1/3 of an acre.
I will be having about 100-200 people there.
By mixer I mean a piece of equipment.

Is this a good list of things that I need? http://www.rocknrollrentals.com/pa.html
What else should I look into renting?

Thanks.

I\'m throwing a show in the back yard of my house. I\'m looking at renting a PA system. How much will this cost me? Is it cool to just have P.A. and no mixer?

Eileen,

There isn\'t really enough information to provide an informed answer to your questions. How big is the back yard and how many people do you expect. Is it a local band? By mixer, do you mean a person or a piece of equipment?

If it is a local band they may have their own PA. You should check with them to see what you actually need to provide.

There will need to be a hardware mixer if you are using multiple microphones. Someone to operate the system may or may not be necessary for your situation.

You should also check out the local sound ordinances. Bands make a lot of noise and many communities have rules. You don\'t really want uninvited guests to show up at your party.

Prices would vary depending on your location and what you actually need to provide.

Wink

I\'m throwing a show in the back yard of my house. I\'m looking at renting a PA system. How much will this cost me? Is it cool to just have P.A. and no mixer?

I\'m throwing a show in the back yard of my house. I\'m looking at renting a PA system. How much will this cost me? Is it cool to just have P.A. and no mixer?

Howdy,
I\'m trying to rework and upgrade some of our band gear as well as figuring out the best set up method of my in ear monitors and Sully\'s wireless bass rig.

basically I\'m trying set up a kickass, quality, user friendly and streamline setup that\'s easy to use. (any suggestions would be cool)

I purchased a small road ready type rolling cart.

Mixer: The Mackie 1604-VLZ Pro (i have attached the owners manual, hook up guide and spec sheet for your reference)
http://www.mackie.com/products/1604vlz3/

Effects: i am looking at purchasing the Lexicon MX400 or something similar (any recommendations here)
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Lexicon-MX400-Dual-StereoSurround-Reverb-Effects-Processor?sku=245508

I have some jbl eon15 powered that i would like to sell (trying to minimize running all the extra power cords...)
I will probly add a decent size power amp or two and go with some good passive jbls for both mains and monitors.

IN EARS: I was thinking that i would put both Sully\'s wireless bass transmitter and my in ears transmitter in the same little road case and prop it up on top of his bass rig so we can both have easy access and control. !!!
VENUE FRIENDLY: i know venue set ups vary. Cant i just unplug my mike cord that the club provides and plug it into my transmitter and then run an additional cord back to my where my mic is??

OR, i might put both my wireless in ears and a wireless mic transmitter in the same case...(what are some of the things im going to run into with this and how can i avoid it?)

clearly i am making no fucking sence.... dammit all
thefarmermusic.com

Ahmed,

Thanks for the question. I wrote a blog post in answer to your question in the blog. If I do this right there will be a clickable link to the post on the <a href=\"http://www.mixinglivesound.com/blog/\">Mixing Tips Blog</a>. If this is not clickable just go to the blog through the link at the top of the page.

Wink

Dear sir..

We have a band consisting of 11 musicians and 3 singers, we face the same problem everytime when we have a concert with the sound mixer and the monitors, when we test the sound before the concerts it\'s fine but in the concert most of the guys can\'t hear their voice or thier instrument sound - specially guitars, drums and flute - in the monitors so everyone starts to play hard and loud so they can hear what they are playing, and the rest you know .... A TOTAL MESS!!

Since we are beginers in that field I was wondering if you have some useful informations or some kind of guidelines for setting the sound, we would appreciate your help.

One more thing is what exactly we should hear in the monitors? all instruments or only bass, drums and the instrument played through that monitor?

Your help is most appreciated and we are lloking forward to hear from you soon..

your truly
Ahmed Akbar
ahmedakb@hotmail.com

I just got an email from a site visitor. I am pasting the text here:
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Hello!

I am a young sound guy still learning and your webite has taught me so much and impacted my mixes in a good way!! Very helpful!

Keep posting!

Dan
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Thank you, Dan, I am glad that the site has been of help to you and I hope that it will be of help to others.

Wink

Wink: I run a SAC system as well (the Driverack is left from my pre-SAC days). So are you saying that once you equalize / 31 band the mic to make your voice sound as you think it should...you are pretty much there? I take it you open up the mics on stage to check for any feedback rings and such after that.

See..that\'s the problem...If you are not sure of what its supposed to sound like....it makes it difficult to get there (lol). The reason I ask is that for the past year I\'ve been getting back into Live Sound mixing. I have used a bit of a \"hit or miss\' approach to optimizing my systems. A bit of Frequency analyzer to get things from 125 hz to 700hz as per the DBX forum, 50 to 125hz by ear and then a mixture of RTA and Ears for 700 thru to 16k. Throw on a couple of CD\'s to tweak. I can get fairly nice sounding rooms but there\'s always the \"what if..? \" factor.
I recently helped a sound contractor optimize a setup in a church Sanctury using SMAART. It was amazing what information it gave back to you. Things I could hear but had trouble identifying were exposed on the screen. He then played some music and added in the recommended EV Speaker curves . The result was astonishing. I suppose with SMAART...it\'s knowing how to take a sample and how to interpret what you see / hear.

Jeff,

I don\'t consider that I really have \"golden ears\". I have been doing live sound as my primary source of income for over 20 years. Prior to that I was in the consumer stereo business for over 10 years. It was in the stereo business that I learned to listen critically.

I am not too high tech. I haven\'t used a spectrum analyzer in live work, though now with my SAC rig I may be more inclined. I have seen engineers bring one in and use it to advantage. I generally don\'t use a CD to tune a system. I work primarily on my own gear. I use my voice through the system for basic set-up (I know what I want it to sound like) and then work with any problem frequencies as they arise. You don\'t really know what your are up against until all the mikes are hooked up and in position. There may be stage rumble and reflections that just playing the system can not show.

I don\'t like to see an EQ chewed up more than necessary. If I drop a band and it doesn\'t do what I want I put it back. Eventually grabbing the right band will be easier.

I view mixing more as an art form than a science. You need to know the technical aspects of sound. That knowledge can help you understand why things are happening as they are. The art is in delivering to the audience the sonic picture that the musicians are painting up there on the stage.

I hope this helps a bit!

Wink

Wink...What advice do you have for optimizing a PA system for a venue. I have a fair amount of experience with a variety of Mixing boards...both analog and digital and a variety of PA and monitor speaker configurations. I have a demo of SMARRT and am familiar with the theory but not practical use. I have read extensively the approach advocated by the DBX Dirverack Forum (I have a Driverack 260 in my rig).

What approach do you use...I don\'t have \"Golden Ears\"...I\'m not one to fire up a CD and in 5 minutes have the room scoped out and EQ\'s set. What advice can you give?

Hello,

I run sound for a country gospel group out of Indiana.

We use an XR8600 PA Head with Behringer powered monitors.

Each Band member wants to use their own amps on stage but they face them out to the audience and I’ve tried to

Tell them that it interferes with me trying to set sound on the system, which everyone is plugged into anyway.

The instruments we have are Rolland electric drums, Bass, Lead Guitar, Rhythm guitar, Steel guitar and two singers.



They complain about volume control when everyone is overpowering each other on stage.

Then the music overpowers the vocals. It’s a real head ache and I can not convince them to leave their amps either facing themselves or

Leave them at home.



What do you suggest?



Also how do you get the front monitor outlet to work on the power monitors?



Thanks for any help or advice

darrinrvs5@netzero.com

Kris,

Yes, you will need an amp at some point. You could use the amp section of your 680 temporarily and maybe also use it as a monitor amp later if you add some monitors. You did not mention what your speakers are, but you do need to be on the lookout for an amp.

I just bought a used mixer (Peavey Unity Series 2002-12RQ mixer ) and I need to know what I need to do or buy to power my 15 inch speakers. I am new to the music industry and people want my garage band to play gigs. I suppose I need an amp for this thing. I\'ve been using a Peavey 680 PA, but I would like to pump sound through this mixer. What should I do? Thanks for any help.

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